Understanding Soil Biology: What Lives in Your Soil and Why It Matters

0:00 This is the last of the regular presentations in this series of cover crops 101 or basics of cover crops. And this one isn't necessarily about cover crops so much as it is about biology, but we felt like it was important because the way God created these systems to work, the plants and the biology have to work together. And so they really can't be separated. So we felt like it's very appropriate to include this in a basics webinar series. So we're glad that you're here.

0:32 Our presenter today will be Dylan. As Jonathan mentioned, Dylan is part of our sales team. He's been on our sales team for a little over three years. He is a Kansas resident, so he lives in Victoria, Kansas, down by Hayes. And he and his wife are well, so you're going to be having your third child here in just a few hours here.

1:03 So growing family and growing knowledge of cover crops and biology. And so Dylan has kind of become our biological expert on the team. He works with a lot of the companies that are providing some of our biological products. So we felt like it was appropriate for him to lead this webinar and then he and I will handle questions at the end here and then whatever we don't get to, we'll handle in the ask me anything next week. So Dylan, go ahead and share your screen and take it away.

1:42 That look good there, Keith? Yes, I can see it. Yes, you're good. Well, thank you for that introduction, Keith. Yeah, so today we're really just going to cover biology basics and kind of walk through what is in the soil, what we're wanting to see, how to know where it is in the soil. And then, you know, steps to improve that biology, whether that be steps on your own or with other companies that we may work with. So this is really just a basic talk. There are certainly other resources I have at the end that I'll kind of direct you to that may get more into some advanced talking of some of the biology.

2:24 So I want to start with what is the biology. I did a Google search and it just says the plants and animals of a particular area. So we're talking of a particular area. We're talking of our soil and really that's living organisms in the soil from the smallest bacteria all the way up to larger animals, you know, like maybe if you're grazing a ruminant animal even walking across there. All of those species have a certain function within the soil that can help with residue breakdown, nutrient availability, aeration of the soil. There's so many different jobs that each one of these has. And you can kind of see in the soil food web here how that is laid out within these topics.

3:21 So why do we want to increase the biology in the soil? Think of the soil as the stomach of a ruminant, your own stomach. You know, we have to have this living fungi and bacteria in there to break down food sources that are in that soil to make it available to the ruminant's body, our own body, to help us access nutrients out of that. Yes, we're not necessarily fending off insects, but your plants that are growing, you know, think of that as your body and how you fend off disease and insects and just really overall health. And there are certain different biological properties that can really help access things that are just not otherwise available to that plant.

4:24 So how do you know if you have biology active and working in your soil? As the picture depicted here is of earthworms, that's really a good starting point. You know, it's one of, I guess, a larger organism compared to something like a bacteria or a fungi. But that's a good visual observation to see and to be able to count. You know, you can do earthworm counts per square foot. These guys are really great caretakers of organic matter that's on top of the soil.

5:02 It down into the soil, which turns into food source for the smaller biology that's in there. And they really can help to open up and aerate that soil to allow water and oxygen into the soil because remember the biology is a living organism. So, like any living organism, it needs air to breathe. And if we have compacted soil that is not infiltrating water or oxygen, it's just not going to be alive. So, these guys are really great indicators of how that starts. And so, as you're out there, just get you some shovels and dig and see if you have earthworms in your soil.

5:45 Another good starting point to start to indicate where you're at in your biological properties in your soil. A Haney soil test is a good general soil health parameter developed by Dr. Rick Haney. This happens to be a Haney soil test that I got from Austin Cisneros with Elevate A. He looks at these quite often and kind of gave me an example of one here to kind of talk through. This is from Regen A Labs. And Dr. Rick Haney actually works for Regen A Labs. So they do a very nice job of promoting or offering these soil test scores.

6:40 So a couple things that are indicators to look at as you look down at the soil health score, the soil respiration number. So, as you look at that number, that's telling you how much CO2 is given off of your soil sample, I think within a 24-hour period. But that's your microbes breathing. So, the higher that number is, that's telling you the higher your activity level of the microbes in your soil. The next number as you look over is the organic carbon. And that's really just the home of the microbes. So, how good of a home do you have? And then how well is your soil cycling with the microbes in there? And then the MAC percentage really is just an indicator of how happy are your microbes. And there's certain number of parameters that they have as they've collected data that indicate what is best for each of these microbes. So this is a good start if you want to start taking what I call a base soil test to start looking at these to indicate living biology in your soil.

8:12 The next probably step up from that would be a PLFA test, again done through Regen A Labs. And this really gives you a number of who's in your soil, not necessarily a detailed explanation of who's in there but just how much fungi, bacteria, protozoa, bacteria things like that, and gives you an idea of where your soil would rank. So in this example, your fungi to bacteria is average. I think that number, if you could get that one to one, that's usually a pretty good level to be at. The protozoa to bacteria, so you're looking at a predator to prey relationship there. If you're all bacteria, well you don't have enough predators to break down that bacteria, which then starts to make the nutrients that that bacteria is consuming available to the plant. And just kind of, and then also, really gives you a number of your functional diversity within the soil and how diverse the biology is in your soil. So a step up from the Haney, you know a little bit more of an investment into that, but can give you some indication, more of a detailed indication compared to the Haney.

9:48 The next testing parameter is called a micro biometer. So this is more of an in-field test as you're out there in the field. You can utilize this to give you kind of a snapshot of microbial biomass and your fungi to bacteria ratio. It's simply you get your soil into a solution. There's some cards and you pipet some of that solution on there and you can see as the color changes it'll kind of

10:26 Give you an indication of what the microbial biomass is and then your fungi to bacteria ratio. You can get these kits at microbiometer.com. We also have a YouTube video kind of explaining about this micro biometer and how it can be utilized on your operation.

10:55 As we transition from just regular soil test to at home testing to a more in-depth look at your soil, we go to DNA sequencing. This is really looking at the individual species in there and identifying their jobs and what they're doing. Laura Kavanagh, the chief science officer with AEA, does a really good job of this. In fact, there's a blog post kind of going over this and what it can do and what you can gain from it. Keith has also done a podcast with her also explaining that.

11:44 If you're looking to really get to know more, she will actually be at our Nexus field day with Nicole Masters June 3rd and 4th, so there'd be an opportunity there to maybe hear from her in person and maybe get a chance to ask her some questions around how this DNA sequencing could help you in your operation.

12:10 And then the next another in-depth look at what is in your soil more so than just a broad approach is metagenomics testing. Two companies here are two that we have worked with and are working with—Biomakers and Rise Bio. They can really give you specific names of those microbes and give you counts of those microbes and kind of let you know what their jobs are and what they're doing for you in the soil.

12:46 Of all the testing that I've explained, this is definitely going to be the largest investment. But if you're really into wanting to get a really detailed look at your soil microbial activity, these are some tests to look at. They can do soil and compost testing. They can test it on the seed in the soil and kind of give you an idea of how some of that stuff is working for you.

13:19 So that really sums up how do we know if we have biology in the soil and how do we know if it's working in the soil. So now that you know that, you know, when where that level's at, maybe the level is not as high as you'd like to see, or maybe it is where you'd like to see, but you really want to continue to grow that biology and advance that biology.

13:45 So how do we grow and add biology to the soil? There's several different ways. There's natural ways of doing it. There's at home ways you can grow and grow your own biology. And of course there's also companies that we work with that can really help to grow that biology, add diversity to the seed and to the soil.

14:17 So really the first and probably obvious one is just growing it with a living diverse root as long as possible. Plants are what feed the biology in your soil from them going through photosynthesis and pumping that carbon and sugar down into the soil, which feeds the bacteria and the bacteria feed the larger species. And then as the bacteria is broken down and excreted from these predators, the nutrients get fed back to the plant. It's really a give and take relationship there.

14:58 Keith has a really nice presentation on carbonomics and kind of how some of this works in the soil through root exudates and plant and biology relationships there. We have several premade mixes, custom mixes, different plants turn on different biology in the soil, make different things available in the soil. So certainly reach out to us and we can really help you maybe try to dial in what you're looking for.

15:35 Another way is really growing your own compost. The Johnson Sue compost has been a really popular one. We have a YouTube video with Dr. David Johnson and his wife Dr. Sue. They have a year-long process of how this compost breaks down and you get a really fungally diverse compost that you can either apply it directly to the soil, you can put it into a solution and make an extract.

16:14 Jay Young, we did a webinar series with him. He does it on a very large scale and running in furrow folure. I think is a seed treatment as well. So check out those YouTube videos that can really give you an in-depth conversation around those.

16:35 Another option would be Guardian of the Grains. So they have imos indigenous microorganism solution. They can help you learn how to produce these, how to grow these. So they're more native microbes to your area, which in turn, that is what's growing and is effective in your area versus maybe bringing in something. I think it's still advantageous to bring in diverse biology from other areas, much like people move from different areas to different areas. The diversity is great but you still want that native biology there because they know the soil, they know the plants that can grow there. They know the environment and they can all work together to really help grow that biology. So there's the Guardian the Grains. You can check out their website and they have how-to videos and can help you learn how to grow that.

17:43 The next, so if you're not maybe wanting to build your own compost, it can be time consuming. There's a lot that goes into it. Maybe you just don't have the time. You can certainly buy as well. We have several different companies that we work with to be able to add it to the seed, which helps get that seed off to a good start and helps to start building that biology in the soil.

18:15 The first product that I'll go over is our Riseback Extend. This is an exclusive product that's made for us from a company we work with called Umahari. This is a legume riseobia product that helps to inoculate all of our cool season and warm season legumes which they need to have that riseobia bacteria in order to nodulate and help them fixate the nitrogen from the atmosphere to help them grow and to be able to add some back to the soil. Also with this product you get some aosyum and aotabacttor which are free living nitrogen fixing bacteria. So they'll be able to help attach to the non-leguminous plants to help them fixate a little bit of nitrogen for themselves as well. And then also some sudamonus which is a phosphorus solubilizing bacteria. So some of those fields, some of those soils that have a high calcium load especially that lock up a lot of phosphorus, this is a good way to start breaking that apart, at least making it available to the seeds that you plant this. We apply this to probably 95% or more of our mixes. You can also buy this product from us separately to add to any legumes that you may have.

19:46 Otherwise another product from Umahari that is exclusively made for us is our micro green NPK. So with this product you get 10 species of a microisal fungi with a very high prople count. So 250,000 propagules per the application rate which is 5 gram per acre. The microisal fungi is super important in the soil in the fact that it's an extension of the root hairs. Microisal fungi can certainly access water and nutrients that the plant may not otherwise be able to. I like to think of it as roads in between your towns. That's how you transfer nutrients back and forth from plant to plant or services and products. So really important in the soil and in this product it also has an aotabacttor.

20:48 Free living nitrogen fixing bacteria. It also has a couple basillus products that are phosphorus and potassium solubilizing and then a few bacteria in there for better disease or better root disease suppression. This can be applied on the seed and infurrow. You want to get this as close to the seed as possible because mycorrhizae fungi does need a living root to grow. So it will hang out there in the spore or propagule form until the conditions are right for them to propagate.

21:25 When you're applying this to the seed, it's best to have a liquid carrier with it. And the same with the rhizobia product. And we do have a YouTube link of how to properly apply these as well. If you go to our YouTube page, I did a demonstration on how to apply these mixing these with a liquid product and applying it to the seed. And the liquid product we really like to use and we use this in about all of my mixes is elevated fungi. And what this product is is just a very diverse fungal inoculant.

22:00 It has 90 plus different species of both saprophytic and mycorrhizal fungi again on the seed infurrow and foliar applied. So what this product does, it helps to get these seeds all these seedlings all started, get them very vigorous, helps increase vigorous root growth and then really effectively utilize nutrients that are already in the soil. So that's where that fungi really comes into play, making those other nutrients available in the soil. So a product like this is what we like to use to blend our rhizobia or our micro green because rhizobia and microgreen you know 5g per acre rate very low use rate dry product, it helps to get it applied to the seed with a liquid product like this at 4 to 6 ounces per 100 pounds of seed. And this product is from our partner company Elevate A who has another good lineup of other products as well for infurrow and foliar application.

23:10 The next products that we've started to carry because people have asked about it is a couple of AEA products. So bioactive gold has been a pretty commonly asked about product, again a mycorrhizal fungi product of eight different species and then another diverse list of bacterial species including nitrogen and phosphorus solubilizing bacteria. This product, compared to the microgreen has a little bit extra with the kelp as a microbial food source and potassium to help with stronger roots and seedling vigor, and then a little and some humic acid in there just really to help support the microbial population in there. Humic acid really acts as a home for those microbes. Again, we can apply this on the seed as a dry product to any of the mixes. And the last as I go back to AEA's products, the one I didn't put in here, but we do carry is their seed flare. The only reason I didn't put it in here is it is not it's just a mineral nutrient product. So not really a biological product, but can be beneficial with the micronutrients that it has in it if you have some of those soils that are lacking some of those micronutrients.

24:38 And then this last slide here are just some other resources that we have available. And certainly there's more out there. Dr. James White has a really good YouTube video on our YouTube page going over the rhizobia cycle. We have a biological webinar series that we did a couple years ago. And then Dr. Christine Jones has a really good webinar series as well kind of going over nutrient relations in the soil. And these people certainly have a vast more education and experience than what I do and they can really help direct you and guide you hopefully in a direction that you need to take your soil. So with that, that's really what I have. Again, I wanted to do a basic approach of how do we know we have biology in the soil and what we can do to increase that biology in the soil. So I think with that Keith, I think we would be ready for questions.

25:44 Okay. Yeah, thanks Dylan for that good overview and like you said, I

25:49 Would encourage you to look at some of these resources. Jonathan is popping them into the chat there. That webinar series with Christine Jones has surpassed 300,000 views now. So it's just been incredibly popular because she's such a wealth of information. And James White, if you haven't listened to Rise of it, it blew my mind. I have to watch it over and over again just to pick up little pieces of it here and there. But number of questions here, Dylan. Folks, we'd encourage you go ahead and put your questions in that Q&A box or you can throw them through the chat and we can try to catch them there as well. But Dylan, I know one of the questions that a lot of people sometimes ask is, you know, you talked about the rhizobia, you know, for the legumes. Is it kind of one type of rhizobia fits all legumes or are there specific things? And then is that something that I have to do every year?

26:50 Yeah, so you know, that's certainly a good question. A lot of legumes require specific rhizobia. Some, you know, there's some legumes that take the same rhizobia, but yeah, it does take a diverse amount. Like I believe the cowpea and mung bean use the same rhizobia, but a soybean uses a different one. Your peas and vetch and lentils, I think, all use the same rhizobia, but it's different than those others. So that's why we came, you know, that's why we worked with Umahari to come up with that product to a broad spectrum. So especially when we get more diverse mixes we're not having to apply two or three different bacteria to there. We just apply one product and then it's got the extra nitrogen-fixing bacteria and the phosphorous-solubilizing bacteria. And you know, to answer your question about, you know, do you need to apply it every year? I mean, if I guess if you really know that you have that bacteria in your soil, I'd say you maybe don't have to, but it's really no more than that. It's really kind of cheap insurance just to have that in there. Then you know that you have that bacteria on the seed and your legumes are going to be able to fixate the nitrogen you need.

28:09 Yeah. So since you brought up cost, I'm sure you know in today's economy everybody's concerned about cost on these. Can you give just some ballpark figures of what you know that rhizobia, the rhizobac product you know with the rhizobia and then also the free-living nitrogen fixers, you know, what would that cost to put on a cover crop for an acre basis or so?

28:31 Oh man, I'd have to look again. It's not very much. I think we... oh man. I should probably know that off the top of my head. I would really have to look. It's very very inexpensive, you know, product. I would just have to look. For sure. Yeah, it seems like you know a lot of the mixes that I do for folks, I try to keep that inoculant, if I'm doing the rhizobac and the elevated fungi, that fungal compost extract. Usually that can be at like $1.50. Okay, the $1.50 to $2 an acre or something like that. And then of course, you know, mycorrhizae are significantly more expensive because the reason is that bacteria can be grown in a lab very quickly and you know you can explode those populations. So they're relatively cheap. Mycorrhizae or fungal organisms can't be grown in a lab vat like that. They have to be propagated on the roots of other plants. And so it's a more expensive product and you're going to spend $6 to $12 per acre to put the mycorrhizae on. And so you know that just kind of gives a little bit of a ballpark there. And Dylan, one of the things I like to do is for sure if somebody's doing a perennial planting, I really encourage them to do the mycorrhizal inoculant because those will persist year after year after year on, especially in a perennial setting. So 12 bucks an acre, but if it's out there for 20 years, well, that's kind of a no-brainer. Yeah. And if you're going to invest, you know, the money into a perennial, you know, you want to do your best to make sure it gets off to a good start and can really... Yeah. And we will, we do it, we're putting the mycorrhizal inoculants on our cash crops, you know, the corn and the

30:26 Soybeans that we're planting because again, I don't have to see much of a yield bump to pay for that. On a cover crop, we'll do it on or I'll recommend it on situations where the land has just been severely abused, maybe it's gone through severe drought or just some sort of terrible event where it needs to recover. And so we don't typically put it on all of our mixes, especially at a full rate. So it kind of depends on the situation and the context there.

31:01 And I think the key then there if you're going to put it on a cover crop, just make sure you're following that up with something in another living root just to make sure that you know I think a lot of times the microiso doesn't necessarily go away but it doesn't stay active unless you have that living root. So just be aware of that.

31:20 Annette Thomas has a question and she says if you're adding biological products to the seed and or in the furrow continuous no tail grazing livestock living root so good soil system how do you know if you need to apply a foliage product throughout the season?

31:41 Well I'd say I would start with visual observation of what is the overall health of the plant look like. There's certainly other tests you can do, between maybe tissue sampling or sap analysis to kind of understand how some of those nutrients are in your plant or moving throughout the plant. You know, another maybe depending on what crop it is. For instance, in my area we grow a lot of wheat. So rust is always a big concern come the spring of the year and we can watch that rust, which is a fungal disease. We can watch that rust come in from southern Kansas and move on up. So we could take a preventative approach to something like that and spray on a nice fungal biological product. So now we've added good fungi which can fend off and keep that plant healthy. The rust still may come in, but if your plant has the health to keep it fended, keep it from activating on that plant, that's a good indicator. And another kind of plant that comes to mind is alfalfa. Alfalfa in the spring of the year you always get insect pressure. So if you can be adding biological products to these crops and be more preventative rather than reactive, that's really the best way to do it. And again, going back to some of those tests in your soil, as you continue to increase the health of your soil and you see that on the test, sometimes you may not see the benefits from a biological product because you already have it growing and active in your soil and your plant's able to just be perfectly healthy and fine that way. Now some of the harsher soils that are highly bacterial, you're going to see a big difference because they just don't have that there. So yeah, visual observation. In that example there that Annette has, I would imagine she has a pretty good biological population already. But yeah, kind of visual and just knowing how some of these diseases come in on a lot of these plants.

34:14 And I would kind of add on to that. You know, most foliage applications are going to be some combination of a biological product as well as a nutritional product. And so, like Dylan said, a sap test can help you determine if you need some micronutrients out there. But then adding a compost extract of some sort. They're relatively inexpensive to do. It's just always a good idea to get biology. And then when you put biology out, you also want some sort of a food source which is carbon of some kind. Whether that's a little molasses or some humic acid or something like that. So there's a lot of good products out there. You know, Dylan mentioned Umahari company.

39:40 Because when you pull a sap analysis, you take an old leaf and a new leaf. So it gives you an idea of how those nutrients are moving throughout that plant. The big thing to be aware of with the SAP analysis is making sure that you get that sample sent as soon as possible. Don't let it sit around all day. If it's going to be a day or two, put it in a cooler, keep it cooled somehow because they really need to, you don't want that sap drying up. And if you can, you need to really overnight that. I believe New Age Labs is out of Minnesota. So that's the one we have in the states. There's other labs that do it as well, but that would be the one that is probably going to be able to be shipped the easiest.

40:32 So yeah, you can start to look at how the soil nutrients are moving up into that plant and that's a good indication of the health of the plant and how the biology is actively moving those nutrients from the soil to the plant. I've heard people like John Kemp and Thomas Dystra, who are experts on SAP testing, talk about SAP testing like you go to the doctor and you get a blood test and they can kind of predict what might be coming for you and say, 'Okay, you need to get your iron levels up or you need to get this level up.' So it's more of a proactive type approach to health, whether it's in a human blood test or SAP test in plant.

41:16 Whereas a tissue test, they said tissue test is a bit more like an autopsy. You can find out what went wrong, but by the time you figure it out, it may be too late to do anything. And so there's places for both, but the most proactive thing you can do is a SAP test. And it's probably going to tell you more about the nutrient levels of the plant and what additional micronutrients are needed. But you can learn about the biology from, if you're consistently seeing certain minerals or certain nutrients always lacking in your plants, you could start doing some research on what specific biological organisms do I need? I'm always low in boron. Okay, what organisms help make boron more available in the soil? And so then you can start trying to figure out a biological approach to making those things available because like Dylan said with a total nutrient digestion test, it's going to tell you you've got boron in your soil. It's just not available to your plants. And so that's a really good tool to use to try to figure out what biology you may need in the future.

42:33 Another question here. Jeff is asking, 'If you add the fungal seed treatment on cover crop and cash crop year after year in a no-till system, then will the soil profile eventually have sufficient levels to the point that no seed treatment is needed each year?' So in other words, do I have to put these things on every year?

42:54 Well, I guess I would probably need to, the there's a few more questions I think I would have, follow-up questions in context. You know, as you start to use these, are you still using a lot of these synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, fungicides? I'm not saying that they're not a good tool to use. I think a lot of times they're an overused tool, but the more you, if you don't start backing those off, you know, you're going to have to continue to add the biology because the salts from the fertilizers are going to kill off some biology. There's other, you know, fungicides kill off fungus, both good and bad. They're there to take care of the bad fungus, but they also kill the good fungus. Your other pesticide products have been known to do that as well. So yes, I think over time if you start to follow the principles of soil health and you start to reduce maybe reduce tillage, reduce the synthetics, you know, eventually you will build up that biology to a point to where yeah you may not.

44:13 You need it because you just have stopped killing it off basically. Livestock integration is another one. A rumen is basically a vat of microbes. And as you graze, as you properly graze, you know, not just throwing the cattle out there for a free-for-all, you know, properly grazing, moving that livestock, depositing that manure and urine, you're just depositing piles of microbes. And that's good active soil. As you look at those cow pies, they're going to break down fast. Probably if you pull them up, you should see earthworm activity under there. So there's a lot more into it than just that.

44:58 I've used them for 5 years now. I shouldn't have to because I've built up the population. I think that's a case by case basis for each farm. So my thought would be as you continue to use these, test the strip, use a little bit less or back off some synthetics, and you're going to have to do some on-farm testing to where you know there is no return to using these anymore and then you know your biology is there and active.

45:32 In other words, in an ideal system, yes, eventually you could stop using them, but very few of us farm in an ideal completely natural system. And so best thing to do is to run a strip test and put it out there. And if you see no difference, you see no change, then that probably indicates you don't need that particular product or you can do this for biology or fertility. But you have to do those experiments yourself and with most people's equipment, application equipment, GPS and all that, it's never been easier to do those sorts of things to prove to yourself.

46:12 So kind of on that topic, Raphael is asking, you'd love to hear your thoughts on the trade-off between chemical and mechanical termination of cover crops. Specifically, to what extent if I use herbicides to kill my cover crops, what extent does that undermine the soil health benefits they're supposed to provide, especially in terms of the impact on soil microbiology?

46:36 That's a great question. I'm still not sure what my opinion on that is. My thought is again based on context. I believe Christine Jones mentioned that tillage is probably the lesser of the two evils as long as you're following up with a growing crop after that to continue to feed the biology. My thought around it here in West Central Kansas, one tillage event in our open area and some of the winds we get, I would prefer a chemical pass on cover crops in my area because we still have the residue there. Maybe we destroyed a little bit more biology than what tillage does, but we can't always till and then follow with a cover crop because sometimes the moisture just is not there for us. So based on your context is going to be what your parameters are. Your choice of termination should be.

47:47 I think probably tillage probably does kill less again as long as you're following it up with a growing cover. But further east where they get more rain, they have maybe more trees, wind isn't as extreme as it is here. You know, that's probably an okay approach. For us out here, we really need to keep that residue out there. So tillage to me just isn't.

48:18 I think that's a great point Dylan and you really have to look at that context and also what your goals are and there's probably quite a difference also in the chemicals that are being used to kill it. We've all heard that Roundup was originally patented as a biological killer, you know a fungicide type product. And so it's probably more harsh on the biology than some other types of chemistry. So those are things you're going to have to look into yourself, but it doesn't do any good to have all the biology and then have all your soil blow.

48:55 Away. So like Dylan said, that's largely going to determine, and that's why we love planting cover crops in July and August. After weed harvest, that's just an absolute no-brainer because you can plant cover crops, you know, for the majority of the country. You can time that to where they're all going to be killed by the frost. And so then you don't have to worry about tillage or herbicide. It's a timing thing and just let the winter take it out. That's ideal. But obviously that doesn't fit all situations or scenarios. But certainly take advantage of any of those cultural climate-type practices as well when it comes to that.

49:36 Yeah. Keith, something I would add to the herbicide approach, if that is what you would have to do, adding a sugar source or a carbon source, a humic acid, that can help buffer those herbicides a little bit as you're applying it to the soil. So it can help buffer for that biology a little bit. It's not going to keep it totally safe, but it is an option as well to make it a little less harsh.

50:03 That's a great point. And also not just for the chemistries like that, but also when you're putting on the higher salt fertility, you know, commercial fertilizers, if you can add some humic acid or some molasses or a carbon source, it helps kind of buffer that effect. That buffers the biology to some of the harshness of what you're putting out there. A few other questions here. You talked about testing for these different organisms, and I know that one of the hardest things to test for is mycorrhizal fungi. Again, it's different than testing for bacteria. And I just wanted to mention here, and I because I see that he's on the webinar here, our friend Willie Ptolemus. Willie, originally from South Africa, is working part-time with Ward Labs but also is kind of off on his own now with his own consulting business. Willie has done lots of experience in testing mycorrhizal, and I'm going to paste his website in: reconstructag.com. He's come up with a pretty innovative new way of testing mycorrhizal colonization in plants. It used to be you had to stain the roots and get them under a microscope to actually see what's going on. Willie's got some unique ways of doing that with it's kind of like a PLFA test, but it's called an NLFA test, and I think it's being run through Ward Labs, but it's kind of a test that Willie developed that is an easier, faster, quicker way to determine whether you've got mycorrhizal colonization. So you might want to check that out if that is something of interest to you.

51:47 So, Dylan, you brought up western Kansas where you're at out there. Very dry land, harsh environment. We have an anonymous attendee here who is asking what's your advice for dryland farmers, particularly those in the driest parts of the plains—hint, hint, talking your area—in terms of whether or how they should use biological. So how do you think about that differently, you know, in western Kansas versus Iowa, for example?

52:13 Well, yeah. I mean, so, you know, moisture is your limiting factor. And I think the first approach you have to take is from a financial approach. You know, if you are experiencing—I don't think there's a biological out there that's going to save your crop from a drought. You know, there's more to getting through droughts than just using one biological.

52:40 Yeah. Yeah. So I think for that, you know, a biological at planting, I think is a good idea either on the seed or in furrow because, you know, you're not going to—you know, generally we have more moisture in the spring of the year. And you want to give that plant the best start it can to get out of the ground, you know, to get that root system vigorous. The more vigorous you can make that root system, the more chance you have of getting through some droughts. You know, as you progress through the season, if it's really dry, you know, you're going to have to make that determination based off: okay, a biological isn't going to save my crop, but can it?

53:29 Know, can it get me to maybe that next rain? Can it keep the plant healthy enough to get through the next rain? If you can hold on sometimes if you can hold on another week, I mean, that can—it's not going to be any blockbuster, but it can certainly help save a little bit of yield compared to maybe somebody not using a product like that.

53:53 I think something else too to keep in mind in our drier environments is just trying to reduce—trying to where you can again I feel you always need to test this—but trying to reduce some of those saltier fertilizers at the beginning because I mean think about it as you apply high salt fertilizers, you know what does salt do? It absorbs moisture. So it absorbs it from out of your soil and now it's not available to the plants. So trying to incorporate those biologicals early and then just really looking at your forecast long-term, short-term, you know, if I use this biological now as a foliar treatment, is it going to get you another week to get to the next rain? That would be my approach. Like I said, there is no silver bullet. There is no—if it's dry, it's dry.

54:56 And you know, one of the things I always think about when people ask questions about this or talk about very arid areas, I always think back to Dwayne Beck, who probably had more influence on the agriculture industry here on the plains than anybody else that I know of in our generation. Dwayne Beck is—he's retired now, but he was the manager of the Dakota Lakes Research Station up in South Dakota, and he talks extensively about making sure the intensity of your rotation fits your climate, fits where you're at. The intensity of your rotation, what he talks about is how many crops are you trying to get in within your rotation? How often do they come? How long break periods do you have? Cover crops can either add to or take away from some of that intensity. But one of the biggest things is growing a forage crop versus a grain crop because it takes about half the moisture to grow probably 80% of the vegetative biomass of a plant and the other half of the moisture to get it all the way to grain.

56:04 So if you're in a dry area, you may have to start really questioning whether or not, especially in a dry area in a drought, should you be growing grain crops? And if you have the ability to grow more of a forage-based system, you can get a crop with far less moisture. And then the biology becomes a much more important factor because often times in a drought, you know, you'll grow a plant, you just won't harvest grain. So those are all things to think about. Now, I know not everybody can switch over to a livestock-based system, but these are things that you just have to challenge yourself with and think about—is the intensity of my rotation appropriate for where I live and the climactic conditions that I'm faced with? And sometimes we have to say, 'No, it's not quite right. What do I need to do to adjust?'

57:02 So anyway, those are always fun things to think about. Well, Dylan, we're kind of up against our time. I know there's a couple questions that we did not get to. We'll try to roll those over into next week. Like Jonathan said earlier, we will be doing an ask me anything webinar next Wednesday. So we hope you can tune in for that. It'll be Zach and I specifically—ask me anything about cover crops, but hey, if you need dating advice or parenting advice or, you know, meaning of life advice, I'm sure we'll have things to say on that topic as well. So join us next week for that. It should be a lot of fun. Bring your questions to that and we will try to answer those.

57:43 So again, thanks everybody for joining us. It's been our pleasure to host this series and we hope that you've enjoyed it as much as we have. These videos, the whole series will be posted on our YouTube channel. All the previous ones already are. This one will be out there soon. So if you have someone else that should be listening to this, send them over there. We certainly appreciate it. Thank you, Dylan. Appreciate your good information and good luck having that baby today.

58:12 All right. Thank you. See you guys. Goodbye everybody.